Overcoming Complex Trauma Through Christ’s Love With Allison M. Miller

Podcast Episode Transcript

Jason Scott Montoya (00:00)
Welcome to an inspirational people interview on the Share Life podcast. Today I'm speaking with Allison Miller. Allison, say hello.

Allison Miller (00:07)
Hi everybody. Jason, thanks for having me on here today.

Jason Scott Montoya (00:10)
Yeah,

yeah, thanks for sharing your life with us. Allison is an author, she's a biblical counselor, and she is also the co-founder of Destined for Glory, a Christian ministry helping survivors unravel complex trauma. So Allison, we're gonna get started, talk a little bit about your story, where you come from, and you'll tell us a little about your organization as well as we play out. But just, let's start about with you. Who are you and where did you come from?

Allison Miller (00:12)
Yeah.

Well, I came from my mother's belly, yes, she is. Seriously, I have kind of a four-decade journey that I'd like to go through. The first four decades of my life were very difficult. I was born into a family who had very unhealthy generational mirroring.

Jason Scott Montoya (00:41)
that's a good start. Is she human?

Allison Miller (01:09)
And so I had no idea.

Jason Scott Montoya (01:11)
And for those

that don't know what that is, explain it to us, simple folk.

Allison Miller (01:17)
Okay, well your parents can tell you

not to do something, but if they're doing it, you're gonna be doing it. Yeah, know, children actually mimic what their parents do. So as many times as we say, don't do this, don't do that, yeah, we're gonna do.

Jason Scott Montoya (01:25)
that's really interesting.

And would you also say they mimic

in response, like in a negative, like they might do something and then you mimic it like literally, but then you also might mimic things that they don't want you to do. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, okay.

Allison Miller (01:51)
yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah.

I mean, the things that, yeah, my my background is don't do this, but we did this. And so and they didn't know. I mean, they were just kind of coming along from the generation before that and before that. So people don't really know how that's affecting their lives. And I sure didn't know it. How? Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (02:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, well

the thing I guess I want to pull out there, because I think it's super important, if, so if a parent says don't steal, and then they're stealing every day from work, like the words don't mean anything. In fact, they might even be worse to say the words, because now you have a contradiction. Yeah.

Allison Miller (02:29)
Yeah. Conflict. Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, it would, you're not being guided in the right way.

Jason Scott Montoya (02:39)
my hypothesis is that the best way to become a good parent is to become a great person or a great leader so that the kids then emulate you versus just telling them the good things to do. Is that what you're saying? Okay.

Allison Miller (02:51)
Yes, I am

saying that. I agree with that. I think the most important thing for us as parents as we're coming up and when we're young, if we don't know these things, it's so important for our words to align with our actions. And as you said, just become the best version of yourself that you can be and do whatever it takes to be that so that you can be that for your children because you're creating their future really through you. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (03:19)
Yeah,

so keep going. I'll let you go take it from here then.

Allison Miller (03:23)
Okay, well in

that first decade I was sexually abused and bullied and so I really gained a lack of self-worth. I had a very distorted view of my confidence level, my self-worth, all of that. I just had a lot of...

Jason Scott Montoya (03:39)
Is

that something that came out of those events happening to you? I guess I'm kind of curious if you tease out, if you're bullied, is it the bully says something to you to make you feel less than, and then it just keeps happening so you internalize it? How would you kind of tease that out a little bit? Okay.

Allison Miller (03:59)
Yeah, exactly.

Yes, I had one young boy, several episodes of bullying when I was young, but one in particular that I walked home from school with every day who always had something to say to me that was negative and really condemning and made me feel less of myself. And so I took that on as truth because I really didn't have.

Jason Scott Montoya (04:08)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (04:26)
you know, as a young girl, I didn't have a definition of who I was or an understanding of who I was. I was just at the mercy of this person that was my age too, six years old, seven years old, making you think that, you know, and I can only say that I imagine that this young child that was doing that to me had had it done to him as well. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (04:37)
Yeah.

Yeah, because

as far as I can tell, it's like a power dynamic. And that power dynamic may have something to do with his parents or siblings or some other context he's in.

Allison Miller (05:02)
Right, yeah.

It be a power dynamic. It could be just that that's what their family, you know, experienced and the generations back in their family. You just, you never know. I mean, everybody's got a story. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in my second decade, I got a very distorted view of what love is and acceptance.

Jason Scott Montoya (05:14)
Yeah, generational patterns. Yeah. Yeah. All right, continue.

Allison Miller (05:32)
You know, I craved love so much and probably it came off the heels of having been sexually abused and bullied and then all this other. And also it's the way I was created by God, not knowing that at the time, but I really craved love and acceptance in my life. But I had a very warped perception of what that meant. And during that decade, was forced.

Jason Scott Montoya (05:54)
Mm

Allison Miller (06:01)
into doing something that was completely against my will. And it really ripped the foundation out from under me of my perspective of love and safety from people who are supposed to be those people that love you and protect you. And I just had many more emotional wounds as a result of that, a lot of betrayal in my life.

And it really just kind of became a recurring theme in my life.

Jason Scott Montoya (06:34)
I wanna dive into that a little bit, because I think when you say that the people you trusted, the people you looked up to, were the ones that hurt you or betrayed you or abdicated.

I actually think of, I read this book called When Victims Become Killers about the Rwanda genocide. And that was a big part of it, was the people that were in a society that were most trusted, and it was doctors, was pastors and priests, it was churches. These places were where the genocide was actually happening. And so I think...

Allison Miller (06:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (07:11)
we don't go into the world expecting the horrors of it or the brokenness and so when we're betrayed I just feel like when it's betrayed by those that we expect to be trustworthy it seems to have a deeper effect. What would you say to that or do you agree?

Allison Miller (07:29)
I totally agree. It has a very deep effect. It has it on your mental health, your emotional health, how you view relationships, what you think they are. You don't ever feel really free and safe to be who you are because you're constantly looking over your shoulder waiting for the next.

thing to happen who's going to betray you next. If these people

Jason Scott Montoya (08:00)
And do you have a sense

of like, I'm on my own, no one's gonna help me, I'm on my own, and so I have to kinda be aware, I have to sorta be vigilant all the time because no one else can be vigilant on my behalf. Yeah.

Allison Miller (08:11)
Yeah, yeah, I

did feel that way. And it's interesting in in that second decade of my life, I was, I have to add this part of it, because I have to say that where I am today, I attribute 100 % of it to my faith and my relationship with Jesus Christ. And when I was 11 years old, I was baptized, and I really felt a prompting to do that at the time. But I

Jason Scott Montoya (08:30)
Yeah.

Bye bye.

Allison Miller (08:39)
had no clue or understanding what that meant at all. was just really, it was an action. will do this because I felt like I was supposed to. So there were people in the church, there were people in family, there were people that I was in relationship with in that second and third decade that really were

Jason Scott Montoya (08:49)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (09:09)
the people that betrayed me the most. Now, looking back, having a clear understanding of where all that comes from now, I understand why it was done. But at the time when you're young and you're going through those things, you do not understand it. And it has a huge impact on the way you think about yourself, on the way that you are as an individual. I mean, it just kind of begins to form and shape you in a negative light. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (09:37)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I had a conversation on a previous episode with friend named Tariq and he shared his story growing up in kind of the real, the hood, in terms of crime and violence. he witnessed a drive-by shooting when he was six. And he didn't know what to make sense of it. He just felt, this is unsafe, I need to get out of here. And I kind of wonder if that's similar. Like, you just have this feeling, but you don't really know what to make sense of it.

Allison Miller (10:00)
Yes.

Yes, it is totally. You you want to get out. There's no way you can get out. You say you're going to get out, but then you're looked at as a troubled child. So it is a very unsafe feeling, and you do want to escape, but you don't know how. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (10:09)
Yeah.

Mmm, yeah.

Yeah,

and I suspect, based on knowing your story, the general thing that we do when we want to feel safe is we chase that safety and we tend to find more danger and less safety, right?

Allison Miller (10:40)
Absolutely. Yes, and in my third decade, that's exactly what I did. I

turned toward looking for anyone who would accept me and a place where I would feel safe. And what ended up happening were multiple rapes, multiple broken relationships, and for me, relentless heartache. And, you know, our heart is the most important place of our life because

all of our issues flow out of the heart. so that's

Jason Scott Montoya (11:13)
Well, talk to

us about that because the Bible does talk about the idea of guard your heart, right? So what do you, how do you kind of take that or receive that or is that applied to what you're talking about or is it something different?

Allison Miller (11:18)
Yes, yeah.

Well, I think it does apply. think if I had known, I would have had a better understanding, but I didn't. yes, guarding your heart is, for me and my perspective, I think that what he's saying is, you know, create healthy boundaries for yourself, create healthy limits for yourself. Don't, I mean, your inner circle needs to be people that lift you up and encourage you and help you along in your life.

Jason Scott Montoya (11:29)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (11:54)
and want the best for you. If you let people in that aren't in that for your inner circle and you're confiding them with things they may guide you in the wrong way, that's damaging to your heart, okay? Anger was something, anger, bitterness, pain, all of those things, rejection,

Jason Scott Montoya (11:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (12:23)
were things that developed in my heart because you know if you if you can think the heart and the mind are connected okay it's just the way we're created and so all of that is how I felt about myself all of those you know the anger the bitterness and it made me view everything in a negative light it was awful and it's very difficult for people to

Jason Scott Montoya (12:31)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (12:52)
go through because when you're in it you don't really know. You're not sitting there going, okay I feel this anger, pain and bitterness and you know I feel rejected here. You might think rejection but if you don't have a full awareness of it you don't. So you're going through all those emotions and those feelings. You're still going and looking for somebody. I did. To make my life better and to get me out.

Jason Scott Montoya (12:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (13:22)
of what I was in. And what ultimately happened is I ended up with people that were probably worse than where I started, for sure. And it just got darker and darker and more injurious to my life. And so that was kind of in my 40s. and

Jason Scott Montoya (13:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (13:48)
I don't know, it was when I was 47 years old and it was just a deep, dark time in my life, a time of great brokenness and that is when God really revealed Himself to me and I'd never really known about a personal relationship. so developing, I mean, it was, I received the Holy Spirit and so never having learned about the Holy Spirit,

Jason Scott Montoya (14:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (14:18)
This was all new for me and but it took me on a journey and it took me on a great journey.

Jason Scott Montoya (14:26)
And

what year was that?

Allison Miller (14:29)
Let's see, that was January 1st, 2007 when that happened. Yeah. And so, yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (14:37)
Yeah, so you and I met in 2010, 11. And so this was, we met a few years after that through a mutual friend. And then we've kind of stayed in touch over the years, worked with each other on multiple projects since then. So I've been a part of that, I guess part, is that part four, most of part four that you're talking about here? Yeah.

Allison Miller (15:01)
Yes, well, that's

not most of part four because I was 47 then I'm 65 now and so got 20 years in almost and so but that first three I guess that would be my fifth decade Jason when we met because it was probably about three years later but we did go through that fifth decade together and

Jason Scott Montoya (15:07)
Okay. So.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Mm.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (15:28)
and now into Midway through this one. yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (15:31)
Yeah, so

I'd be curious, if you go back, so you kind of broke up your story in these pieces, what would you tell each, like imagine someone's in one of those places now, the first one, the second one, the third one, the fourth one, what would you tell each one if maybe they're listening now or in the future?

Allison Miller (15:53)
Wow, well for the young girl, I would tell her that the person that was speaking those things to her is hurting and that they have no meaning to her life whatsoever and I would validate her and let her know how valuable and how worth her worth is to me and to God and how much he loves her. For the

Jason Scott Montoya (16:16)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (16:21)
one who I guess in the second decade she had a distorted view of love. I would help her to understand the depth of love that God has for her and how you know it's his desire for her to find her significance, her acceptance and her worth in him and so I would help her to find that.

And then for the third decade, I would say that, you know, because in my third decade is where I went through so much, you know, my trauma throughout my earlier life just kind of snowballed and it became very complex. And I went through a lot more and a lot more brokenness. And so I would say in that decade,

that I would help them understand how.

there is a way to be healed from it. There is a different path that we can take and there is protection over us in a certain way. not saying bad things don't happen to good people. I'm saying that God loves us and he set forth a plan for our life. so, I mean, in that third decade, I'm over 30 years old. And so,

I need somebody coming along beside me saying, hey, let me help you. Let me help you set goals. Let me help you show how to show you how to create healthy boundaries. Let me show you really also, I think one thing that we don't talk about a lot is the enemy and

his tactics and how his goal is to come and still kill and destroy what God has for us. So I think that that's a big thing that I would share in that decade. In my fourth decade, having somebody to tell me that no matter what I've been through, no matter where I've been, there's hope, there's

Jason Scott Montoya (18:29)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (18:46)
the possibility of a new life. mean nothing is impossible with God and so to get to to come along with somebody and help to mentor them in that way.

Jason Scott Montoya (18:58)
Yeah.

What else would you say about your story?

Allison Miller (19:02)
What a journey. You know, I never imagined when I'm sitting there going through all of those things through the decades of my life that I would be doing what I'm doing now. You know, and I guess it was shortly after we met and in that fifth decade after I went through.

really seeking to know the Lord and have personal relationship with Him and saw God's redemption in my life. mean, from a very, you know, I don't see the whole thing yet that comes later, but from a healthy perspective of finding a new life, understanding that I'm a new creation and that in that I can walk in His ways and His way is the best way.

Jason Scott Montoya (19:49)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (19:56)
I can tell you right now, I'm doing it any other way. It is not, but I ended up, I was so hungry and thirsty to know him and what I learned and found is that the more I facilitated groups of women, the more I got engaged in helping women find the truth, the more I learned. so,

Jason Scott Montoya (19:58)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (20:24)
I would share my story from time to time and I had so many women coming along beside me, know, write your story, write your story. So I ended up writing a book on my story. It's called Desperate for Love and I mean, my search for acceptance was in the arms of men. And so that's the subtitle. And I just never would have imagined being

a writer, never would have imagined doing the things that I'm doing, helping other people through what I've been through, helping them understand the depth of the love for God for them, that there is a pathway to where you can literally break free from all the mindset that is created in you from the time you're young until you are older.

And you know, that's what God is at Romans 12 to renew your mind. And so we can do that. We have the capacity to do that. God has created us for that. So really, just getting to do that in itself is such an honor. And then in 2008, I think I started a ministry for women, 828 women.

It didn't go exactly like I wanted it to, it, but you know, we touched a lot of people's hearts and, and then I took a break and in 2019 I met my current ministry partner with Destin for Glory and I kind of helped him on some projects.

Jason Scott Montoya (21:55)
you

Allison Miller (22:06)
as a freelancer. And then we came back together in 2022 and it was like, hey, let's put these ministries together and let's do this and it's destined for glory. So helping people untangle complex trauma and doing it also with the church. We have so many people that have been damaged. Their lives have been basically stolen from them because of misguidance.

from people that don't have an understanding. So, yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (22:40)
Yeah, and

I think I would add one, a couple things and I'd like you to share a little bit more about that, but there's sort of the spectrum of normality when it comes to relationships and dynamics, relational dynamics. And a lot of times normal advice that we give to people in normal contexts is good.

But in a toxic situation, in a complex trauma situation, that same advice that could be good in that situation is actually more harmful in those toxic situations. So, would you talk a little bit about that? And also just kind of help us understand the difference between normal and what's complex trauma.

Allison Miller (23:22)
Yeah. Normal trauma would be like if you had a car accident and you were traumatized from that. Or maybe you were robbed on a dark street one night. But complex trauma is something that happens over and over and over. It doesn't always have to be the same, but it can kind of be in the same family.

Now, as far as helping people understand on giving advice, that is one of the best one of the areas that we want to help people. And that's why we've created so many resources for people. It would be real easy for someone to just, well, I just had somebody say the other day, well, you know, why would somebody stay in an unhealthy

abusive relationship for 25 years. And I mean, and this is a person that I believed would know, you know, and understand that. And I was very surprised. But the thing is, is that the way that it affects someone in their mind, we, we, if we have not walked that, if we have not experienced that, if we have not come through to the other side of that and really

understand it from a biblical perspective and I come at all of this from a biblical perspective. We cannot help somebody. We're not going, we're going to do more damage. You know, you can't just tell somebody to stay in a marriage that is abusive. When you do that, you're basically, I mean there are

There is evil that is waiting at the door, you know, and I don't laugh and find it that I am so serious. is.

Men who hurt women or women who hurt men, because it does come on both sides, their minds are not right. They are not operating in what the design of true relationship is. people are at risk if there's ongoing trouble for their life, you know? And so safety is the number one thing, regardless of what anybody thinks. But if you tell them to stay,

then you're creating more harm in their life than really getting

Jason Scott Montoya (26:03)
Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if this

is, yeah, this is a good example you tell me, but I imagine teaching your kids to cross the street, there's cars coming and they have to kind of navigate it. That's different than telling your kid to go cross the street when a car is trying to run them over, right? It's a very different thing. So I think the advice in a health, in a normal marriage, you might have some conflict in marriage and you need to sort of encourage

Allison Miller (26:25)
Yes, very different.

Jason Scott Montoya (26:36)
them to work it out and sort out, have accountability and sort out their differences. But if it's actually harmful and abusive, then you're actually sending them back to into a situation where they're going to continue to be hurt. And so...

One of the big things that I've seen with people that make that bad advice is that they, one, they have a blind spot that there is potential scenarios that are not like what they're expecting. But second is they haven't actually investigated the situation to even know what they're dealing with. So what do you think about that? Because I feel like that happens a lot where people

Allison Miller (27:16)
Right. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (27:21)
they don't actually want to get involved but they kind of want to make it go away so they actually give the bad advice to try and make it go away when they're actually contributing to the problem.

Allison Miller (27:30)
Yeah. Why don't you restate your question for me? Go back to the beginning of your question.

Jason Scott Montoya (27:35)
Yeah, do you agree that some people, instead of trying to solve the problem, just try to make it go away so they don't have to deal with it?

Allison Miller (27:44)
Yes.

Yeah, definitely. A lot of times people just don't want that in their life. They don't want anything. They're like, oh, that's negative. I don't want that. I just need to say whatever I need to say to make that go away or brush it under the rug or whatever. But again, it goes back to you're hurting them more. I know

You know, one of the, we all talk about this, but one of the biggest scriptures there is that's very harmful to women because it is misunderstood and because it's not reciprocated is woman submit to your husband. And submission is, submission comes through a healthy relationship.

you don't have to work on it. You know, I mean there may be certain times where it does, you do, but...

Jason Scott Montoya (28:39)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean submitting to abuse is not what we're talking about. What it's talking about. Yeah.

Allison Miller (28:51)
No,

but people will tell people to do that. Yes, that is what they were. And then if they leave, which I experienced, they pretty much become unaccepted. Well, that person left. Yes, they're shunned. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just, it's very sad because we are not

Jason Scott Montoya (28:54)
That's the advice what to give, yeah.

think it's shined by the community, yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (29:20)
We don't have the knowledge that we need to have on that aspect to be able to really help people. So my hope is, and Gerard's hope is, through our ministry that, you know, whether you're in a support network, whether you're a church that has a ministry, whether you're an individual who has been through this, you're a survivor.

that the resources that we offer will help you to see the truth and help you to understand more about the future that God has for you, not what we've been told through people who just don't have the truth. I don't know any other way to say it. don't know.

Jason Scott Montoya (29:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, have you heard of the phrase or the acronym DARVO, D-A-R-V-O? So, DARVO is, it stands, it's a tactic used by perpetrators to avoid accountability. So, the perpetrator denies.

Allison Miller (30:16)
No.

Jason Scott Montoya (30:28)
the harm or abuse ever took place. When confronted with the evidence, the perpetrator then attacks the person that they had harmed or are still harming. The attacker may also attack the victim's families and friends. And then finally, the perpetrator claims that they are the victim of the situation. Thus reversing the victim and offender, they steal the victimhood for themselves and play, essentially they become the victim. They make themselves the victim. And they do that to manipulate everyone involved so that they can keep doing what they're doing.

and avoid accountability. So when you said that, it made me think of that framework.

Allison Miller (31:03)
Well, I will say

I've never heard that acronym, but I know very well those tactics. Yes. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (31:08)
Yeah, yeah.

And so I think the other thing to keep in mind is that when you're dealing with someone who is serially, is it toxic and serially abusing someone, they are probably practiced in shutting down the situation in a way that avoids accountability. And most people are not prepared to deal with that person.

Allison Miller (31:32)
Right. That is correct.

Jason Scott Montoya (31:33)
And so they're,

yeah, it's like imagine going into a war zone and you're not a trained soldier and you're fighting a trained soldier. It's a very different dynamic, Yeah.

Allison Miller (31:40)
Yes. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (31:44)
What, anything else you wanna talk about with your story?

Allison Miller (31:49)
Hmm

I'm just, I love where I am now. It's just, it's a wonderful place.

Jason Scott Montoya (31:54)
Yeah, well tell us about that because

you know I think someone, okay so when you were, you said 47 I think is when that happened and you said you're 63.

Allison Miller (32:03)
Mm-hmm.

60, almost over the hump of 65. So almost 66 this year, yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (32:10)
Oh, 60, okay.

So, that's a lot of life. Like, that's almost 20 years. But I think when someone's, like I'm 40, that's a lot of life. But I think, like, there's still more life left. what if someone's, I guess what would you say to someone that feels like it's over? They're 47, they're 50, maybe they're 52.

they're kind of stuck in this, what would you tell them in terms of giving them hope?

Allison Miller (32:40)
I would for sure tell them it's not over. There is so much life after that. Once you are out of that and you can break free, can truly live from a place of wholeness. You know, we're not totally whole until the end, but we can have a wholeness in Christ and we can

live this life that is full of, you know, our confidence does not come from us. It comes through him. Our significance comes through him. Our tenacity for life comes through him. you know, all that old stuff is gone and he uses it for good. So, I mean, I don't know, he may have a story for that person to tell. And if they don't tell it, then

You know, I believe that somebody could be missing out if they don't share their story because we each go through things in our lives to be able to, I'm not saying it happens on purpose. People have free will. But the things that we go through in our lives are things that we use to comfort other people. And so I would say that

You know, I feel younger than I ever have. I feel more alive than I ever have. I feel more in alignment with who I truly am versus who somebody tried to make me into or made it look like I was. And I don't have to be in constant chaos and turmoil. think that, you know, someone constantly demeaning you, constantly making you look like the problem, constantly making you...

Jason Scott Montoya (34:27)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (34:35)
think that you have no value or worth and that you're there for them versus why you're really here and there's purpose. There's purpose in that. And it's a really beautiful thing. I mean, I don't know how long I'll live. If I'm gone tomorrow, I'm still happy. But I just know that there are things that I have to do here that I want to do here. And that is I want to help people to come free from this. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (34:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

So with your organization, a nonprofit destined for glory, how is it doing that? Or how is it structured to do that? Who is it helping and how?

Allison Miller (35:15)
Well, it's helping individuals that are survivors, whether they're men or women, but our focus is mainly women. It's helping people that are in support networks that have like, you know, support groups for people to come to and try to process the things that are happening with them. And it's also designed for an individual like you, Jason, or somebody

Jason Scott Montoya (35:24)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (35:44)
you know, somebody's sister's brother who knows someone that's going through something and they want to help them. And so it's a place of resource. And also we, Gerard, Michael, Ellen and I, my ministry partner, co-authored a, I call it a journey. You know, I guess it's a course, a program.

but it's a 14 week journey that we wrote and it's based off of our own experience and off of biblical truth and it just helps you see yourself the way God sees you and see others the way God sees them. It helps you understand more about what it looks like to, I guess I would say live in integrity, walk the talk.

Jason Scott Montoya (36:34)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Allison Miller (36:44)
And then to go from trauma to triumph and anybody that goes through that course will see themselves in a healthier way. They will understand the truth more. So we offer that as a course on our website. It's virtual. So you can go through it at your own speed and we have

Jason Scott Montoya (37:08)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (37:11)
I don't know why the word is escaping me. There's, so for each week that you go through, there's a companion guide to help you walk through your own life and you can make notes about that for each lesson. So, you know, we're doing, and we're also doing that through mostly what we do is create.

Jason Scott Montoya (37:25)
for each lesson.

Allison Miller (37:39)
But like we just put, created a blog post. It was just really on my heart to us to start talking about narcissism. And so recently we put a post out that we were gonna do a podcast soon about that. And I was able to go and sit with somebody and counsel her. And I mean, I got a call off of that.

post that went out and so you know we we will meet but we do group coaching and we'll walk through life with somebody if they want us to but it's

Jason Scott Montoya (38:15)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (38:17)
They're just, you know, what we're doing to Jason is we're going to partner. have, we do not have those partnerships yet. We're in the process of creating those partnerships with licensed professional counselors and churches and others who can be a great resource for people and help them too.

Jason Scott Montoya (38:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (38:42)
I don't know a better way to say it other than we're not the know all and all be all, you know, and so there are other people and we want to bring people along in their God given gifts and talents to be able to help other people too. But to do it from an understanding. So anybody that would do that with us, they would go through our coursework to have a clear understanding.

Jason Scott Montoya (38:50)
You

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now you say clear understanding, you've mentioned truth multiple times. What is it like to live under the lie and deception? What is that even, what is that like and why is it a problem?

Allison Miller (39:30)
Well, I would say under the line deception, you think that everything is up to you, that you have to make everything okay. You feel a tremendous amount of shame and guilt and condemnation under the law. And you feel like you're never going to break free. mean, for me, it was like being in a prison, literally. And I don't know how many times I tried to get out.

and I could not get out.

Jason Scott Montoya (40:01)
Yeah. And would you say

the deception is part of what makes it hard to get out?

Allison Miller (40:07)
Absolutely. So understanding the deception and how the deception works is a very big key to breaking free from that.

Jason Scott Montoya (40:20)
Yeah, because I can imagine

like a situation where let's say you're you're you've imprisoned me with your narcissistic tendencies, Allison, and you've got you've told these lies and then you've gotten me to participate in those lies. Right. And I've done that to other people.

Allison Miller (40:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Scott Montoya (40:37)
Like, that's a, now I've got to, to break free, I have to break free of your lie, but then I also have to sort of, all these people, I have to accept or acknowledge or address that I lied to all of them too, right? So it kind of creates like a sandwich effect. Is that a good way to think about it, or is there more to it? Yeah.

Allison Miller (40:50)
yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah.

I mean, I think that, you know, one of the biggest heartaches for me when, I realized, you know, how it had affected my life and the things that I had done was a big part of my journey was going back to those people. And you don't always, you know, get that opportunity to see them face to face and go through that, but really coming to them and, and letting them know how deeply sorry I am and hoping that

you know, they will forgive me for what I've done, my part, of course, forgiving other people for what they've done and understanding that while what they've done is wrong, God has vengeance and all of that, you know, as is. But going back to those people is very critical for me.

I didn't even know what I was doing honestly and it was a leading of the Holy Spirit. But to be able to go to them and just be like, hey, wow, I'm so sorry I did that. I didn't know. And then there still will be people that will try to manipulate you and do the same thing that they've done before.

Jason Scott Montoya (42:06)
Well, and that's the other thing I would,

yeah, is if we buy into the lie and participate in the lie, it makes us much more manipulatable. It actually, if I get you to buy into my lie, I can control you a lot easier.

Allison Miller (42:20)
Absolutely, yeah. I mean, you can. And the more truth I have learned, the more I have come out from underneath the lie, the easier it has been for me to be able to see clearly what is happening when someone speaks to me and says something or whatever it is, okay, and understand, well, that's not for me. That's not the truth. I don't, you know, I know what you're doing. You don't have to say it, but you know.

Jason Scott Montoya (42:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Anything else you would add to that? Truth and deception?

Allison Miller (42:55)
Well, I would add for me, having had the opportunity many years ago in this 20 year journey, I got to attend C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters as a play. And I was able to really watch through the play how the enemy works to

Jason Scott Montoya (43:14)
you

Wow.

Allison Miller (43:25)
take people down. And it's not that we have to always be focused on the enemy. It's like, as we're talking about, the more you know the truth, the more protected you are from the deception. So but that was, that was very powerful for me in my life. It was life changing for me, because it was the first time I think I really realized, wait, wow, that look at all this that's going on out there. And I'm just

Jason Scott Montoya (43:38)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (43:56)
I just played right into it, you know, and so there is a way. There is a way, a better way. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (44:01)
Yeah, yeah.

So speaking of better, what does it mean to live better?

Allison Miller (44:07)
Well, I would say the best way that I could answer that is living in the alignment with the way that God created you. And that means, you know, embracing the way He created me uniquely and individually, embracing my temperament, the way that He's, you know, designed me.

the things that he's taught me, trusting that he has purpose and meaning in my life and that's revealed through Psalm 139. I mean, he knit us together in the womb. He knows everything about us. He knows the number of days that we're gonna have. And he knows that the purpose that he has for us, the harder we fight against it, I guess the harder things are, but the more we embrace it, then, you know, it becomes easier. But I would also say,

Jason Scott Montoya (44:40)
Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah.

Allison Miller (44:56)
understanding that we have a choice. We have free will to make the choice to follow him or not. He doesn't, he never forces anything on us, but he has wonderful things for us. So choosing to follow him and you know, growing up for me, my favorite song was trust and obey and

I didn't really start doing that until I realized that he wasn't that big God out there waiting to slap my hand because I did something wrong. He was this wonderful, loving God who had great things for us. And when I say great things, he has a future for us and he has a hope for us and it's not to bring harm to us and to hurt us. It's...

you know, to really bring our lives to fullness of what He's created us to be. I would also say that you may not realize it or not, but you have an amazing freedom from fear and past mistakes. They're gone. And as your mind becomes renewed and as you focus on Him,

Jason Scott Montoya (46:10)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (46:17)
There is this sense of peace that you get that because you know that you're living under his wings and not you know under what man tells you that's to do. You know I believe he's the answer for everything.

Jason Scott Montoya (46:24)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, and I think one of the, yeah,

I think the freedom from fear is great because we're so consumed as humans by fear of so many things, partially because of how weak and vulnerable we are as a person, as a species too. But the cool thing about Christianity that I think

maybe in America we tend to forget about because we're such a generally speaking historically, at least in my lifetime, have been pretty safe. But that fear of death, like, ultimately death comes for all of us. And Christianity says, Jesus says through the cross and the resurrection. I've actually, I face death and I've come through it.

and I've resurrected and you will follow me if you follow me. If you choose to follow me, you can follow me in that same pattern.

Allison Miller (47:27)
Yes.

Yeah, so we have eternal life with Him. And so even though we have death of our moral being, our spirit being goes on with Him. I think too, when you think about fear, Jason, I think that there are so many people that have a fear of really sharing the things that they've been through. And I think that it's so important to be able

Jason Scott Montoya (47:35)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (48:01)
to share that without fear. I think there are so many people that are so caught in the lie that if you tell somebody they're going to think bad about you or they're not going to like you anymore or you're not perfect anymore, people live with that.

Jason Scott Montoya (48:02)
Yeah.

So is that us trying to control something that maybe we don't need to control?

Allison Miller (48:29)
is being fearful of the past.

Jason Scott Montoya (48:31)
in terms of what

being fearful of sharing is it that we is it it me being a control freight going I don't want any I want to control this you know where's it something else

Allison Miller (48:35)
Yes.

Yeah.

Well, I think it's partly control and I think it's, it could be just, you know, years of having someone never being able to share with a safe person before and to be accepted and still loved and helped through that. But yes, I think it's, you know, if I control that, then nobody knows what I've done.

Jason Scott Montoya (48:45)
Okay.

Allison Miller (49:11)
outside I look like this great person and I'm not really I'm rotten on the inside I'm sorry but that's just kind of you know

Jason Scott Montoya (49:15)
Yeah.

Well,

and that's a good point, because I think maybe I can be better at it, but I think I want to really, I want people to see me.

Like in some ways I'm great and in other ways I'm horrifying. Like I want people to see the whole thing. Because I've just had so many experiences with people where I just see the good side and then I learn about the other sides and it's like, ugh. And I just kind of want to be proactive and say, don't put me on the pedestal and if you try to I'm going to knock myself off.

Allison Miller (49:52)
Yeah, yeah,

yeah, because I mean, we're all a work in progress. And I mean, in the last 20 years, I've been through my own challenges and difficulties of, you know, trying to overcome this and then I will just be straightforward and transparent. There was a person in my life that really had their hook in me and it took a lot of work.

Jason Scott Montoya (49:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (50:18)
in my heart, and relationship with the Lord to see the truth. so yeah, I mean, we're not perfect and we might like to be, but we're not. There's only one who's perfect. So yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (50:28)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I wanna read a

poem. I'm not a poem person. I don't really connect with poems or relate to them, but every once in a while I'll find a poem where I'm like, wow, that actually really works for me. do you mind if I read it? Okay, all right, it's called Autobiography in Five Short Chapters by Portia Nelson. So, it's broken up into five sections. So, section one is...

Allison Miller (50:48)
I'm glad to hear it.

Jason Scott Montoya (50:59)
I walk down the street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I fall in. I am lost. I am helpless. It isn't my fault. It takes forever to find a way out. Section two. I walk down the same street. There is a deep hole in the sidewalk. I pretend I don't see it. I fall in again. I can't believe I'm in the same place. But it isn't my fault. It still takes a long time to get out. Section three.

I walk down the same street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk. I see it's there, I still fall in, it's habit. My eyes are open, I know where I am, it's my fault, I get out immediately. Section four, I walk down the same street, there's a deep hole in the sidewalk, I walk around it. In section five, I walk down another street.

Allison Miller (51:47)
There you go. That's beautiful. I would love for you to send that to me. That's great. Yeah. It's our lives.

Jason Scott Montoya (51:53)
Yeah, so.

Yeah. And it's unfortunate. But we have to go. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way, I guess.

Allison Miller (52:04)
Yeah,

well, yeah, I mean, for me, I was very determined that I was going to do things my way. There was nobody for me to listen to that I felt could add any guidance to my life. And so I did it my way and my way was not the best way for sure.

Jason Scott Montoya (52:20)
And then we have to go,

all right, God, my way is not working. Show me yours. Show me yours. Yeah.

Allison Miller (52:26)
Right, yes

and that's really the point I got to was just you know I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be in charge. You be in charge. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (52:35)
Yeah, yeah.

And that, think, you we think about our relationship with Christ and God as he's saving us. But I think what you're describing, and I think maybe the more important piece of it is that he's also our King, our Lord, he's the one we're following. And if we're not following him, we're following someone else. And so...

Allison Miller (52:44)
Yeah.

Right, there's no in-between.

Jason Scott Montoya (52:57)
Yeah, we might as well follow

a benevolent and loving creator who wants the best for us and wants to help us and it may mean we require some work. So speaking of work, how much does any of this translate to the workspace? What does it mean to work smarter and does any of this relate?

Allison Miller (53:17)
Well, working smarter, when I think about working smarter, I think about leverage. And, you know, there's, from my perspective and my work, there's time leverage and relationship leverage. And in terms of what I do and where I am in time, just in perspective of what we do.

Jason Scott Montoya (53:24)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Allison Miller (53:47)
why do you want to go learn by yourself when there are people that have walked the footsteps ahead of you and they can help you find your way? And so you literally are able to propel your journey in a more positive direction, healthier direction and more toward Christ through sitting at the feet or walking, letting people walk with you or mentor you or help you through what you're going through. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (53:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, and I think, I'm thinking of the word leverage this year as well. I mean, even this conversation we're having here, we're recording it and sharing it right now, this is leverage because you can tell this to a person over and over and it doesn't require any more of your time once you've recorded it.

Allison Miller (54:25)
Yeah. Yes.

Right.

Jason Scott Montoya (54:33)
and

you're writing your blog post is an example of that. Those are powerful ways to take, maybe to help us help people sidestep that hole or to get out of it faster or to skip it next time. Yeah.

Allison Miller (54:36)
Yes.

Yes.

Yeah, I

totally agree. Yeah.

even our course, mean, that's a form of leverage. You know, it can be duplicated over and over and over. Many people can see it, but our time, our initial commitment and time was about a year to write that course. so, so yeah, I mean, I think, and

Jason Scott Montoya (54:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, and books too. can't

remember if I, yeah, you, did you, I don't know if you mentioned, you just finished a second book or you're about to.

Allison Miller (55:17)
Yes, I did. just finished a second book. It's not up yet, but it will be hopefully within the next two weeks. It's A Resilient Faith, Bouncing Back in the Arms of Jesus, and it's really more of a guide, a map per se. You can go anywhere in the book.

Jason Scott Montoya (55:25)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (55:41)
And it's not that you have to read it in order, but you can look at it and just kind of get some, you know, there's some story, there's some, a lot of key scriptures, there's some understanding and sharing biblical examples as well. So it's kind of been my journey of building, you know, resilience because that is what we want to be. We want to be resilient. When I think of resilience, I think of the duck that's in the water.

Jason Scott Montoya (55:44)
okay, cool.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Allison Miller (56:11)
and

Jason Scott Montoya (56:11)
Hmm.

Allison Miller (56:12)
the water just beads right off of them. So even just your story and walking around the hall or going on the different street, if it does come, sometimes it's not our choice. And so if it does come against you, it just rolls right off. So I think of it in those terms. So yeah, I'm real excited about that.

Jason Scott Montoya (56:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think

it's a timely topic. actually did an episode of podcast in December on emotional resilience. And I really think that might be kind of the word of the year for 2025 is resilience and developing that. And what does that look like? So I think that's a good timing for it.

Allison Miller (56:38)
huh.

Well, it wasn't my plan because my plan was to have my 10 years later chapter out of my Desperate for Love book and have a revised edition go out for that. that was just kind of what got put in front of me and what I started working on and it happened. so, so yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (56:54)
haha

Yeah.

Yeah, well I can't

remember if I've shown this to you, but I have from the Garden of the Cross, I got my first proof. Yeah, but like you said, I've been working on this for years and I thought it was gonna take me two, so.

Allison Miller (57:17)
Yay! So exciting.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Sometimes it takes a lot longer than we think it's going to, especially that one, Jason. That one is, yeah. I'm so proud of you. That's so wonderful. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (57:33)
Yeah. Yeah, thank you. So

you mentioned mentoring. Dive into that a little bit more for us.

Allison Miller (57:40)
Well, mentoring is a wonderful thing. Wish I'd had a mentor. And when I was young, a mentor can really help you in many different ways. Mostly, they're going to be somebody that really is able to listen to what you're saying. I call that active listening.

Jason Scott Montoya (57:48)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (58:09)
they're able to hear you and they're able to understand what's going on between the lines. Okay. And so then they're able to help you really see what's happening. They also can help you see blind spots in your life because we all have them. We all have blind spots. So I have mentors, you know, yes, yes, we are. We are so blind for sure.

Jason Scott Montoya (58:27)
We're blind to those blind spots. And that's also

why we need community and accountability. Yeah.

Allison Miller (58:36)
Yes, we just

do. And it's not like, Hey, Jason, did you finish your work today? It's not like that. It's you know, we need somebody there for us to help us and also the community aspect of it is iron sharpens iron. mean, each person's experience or whatever helps us. And so we all grow from it. But I think to the relational aspect of that enriches our lives. We

Jason Scott Montoya (58:41)
Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Allison Miller (59:05)
are in community with people who love us, who care about us, who have our best interest at heart. A mentor would have that. And they can guide you in, they never really tell you what to do, but they can help guide you from their past experience, from what they know is the truth now, and through their relationship with God.

Jason Scott Montoya (59:22)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (59:33)
But they help us see what's already inside of us too, that we don't know is there. Well, I think there are strengths, there is wisdom, are gifts that we have, there are talents that we have that we may not see as an individual, but someone else coming along beside us, they help us see that and they help us use it for purpose and meaning.

Jason Scott Montoya (59:37)
Okay, so to go more into that.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:00:03)
And, you know, it's just, I don't, I would have to say that's probably why I'm where I am, you know, because of people that have come along beside me and helped me. And I've had a lot of coaches and I've had a lot of mentors and I know that it helps us tremendously and it can propel us. Sometimes we get lost and go the wrong direction, but you know, they'll help bring us back.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:00:11)
Yeah.

You

Allison Miller (1:00:31)
and that's really good. They also help us see truth, which definitely propels us on our journey.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:00:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, and they might be able to, I think, I mean, this could be a double-edged sword, but they can, if we're driving down a road, they can, they may be someone who can see down the road further because they've been down that road. We may not listen to them. We may still drive down that road and off the cliff, but there may be value in them saying it, us doing it anyway, and then going, I guess he was right. Maybe I could trust him on the next thing. Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:00:53)
Yes. Yes.

Right.

That's right, because you

reflect back on what that person has said. Yeah, you realize. Yeah, for sure.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:01:13)
Yeah.

Yeah. Now let's talk about narratives and stories because I think that's a big part of all of this and beliefs. How have they shaped you as a person? Real or fictional or both?

Allison Miller (1:01:27)
Well, the real story that really affected me that was probably impacted my life the most and was the most life-changing for me. Well, there were two, but I guess the first one was Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, which I know you have just written about from the Garden to the Cross.

just what he was willing to do for us and the way that he was willing to suffer for us and the way that he was willing to submit to God's way, God's will versus his own. I mean, he knew he had to die and he was still willing to do that because it would give us eternal life, but not just eternal life. It would give us a way to live the way that he

designed for us to live through the power of the Holy Spirit. So that story for me was very powerful and I think that was just a

a call for me to die, to die to my need for control, my need for holding on to the past, my need for the things that were detrimental in my life and just allow myself to move forward with him. The other story is in John four and it's the story of the Samaritan woman. And if you don't know that story, she was at the well in the middle part of the day, which was the hottest part of the day.

and she had been ostracized by all the women. She was mixed culture, mixed breed, and she just was very rejected woman and was here at this well to draw water and Jesus met her there. And her story was that she had been married five times and she was currently living with the man who was not her husband.

Jesus just met her right there where she was and told her the truth and that he's the one that had living water. He never judged her. never, you know, he just he did say, you know, he did tell her her life. He knew her life. It was very evident that he knew every single thing she'd ever been through. But he

embraced her and loved her. And by that one experience in her life, she ran to tell everybody about him. so many people, you know, wanted to know about him because of her life. And I would have to say at that point in my life, while I wasn't living with a man that was not my husband, I was that woman that had had those marriages.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:04:16)
you

Allison Miller (1:04:38)
And I just identified with her so much and it just awakened me to a level that I'd never been to want to go and share his message of goodness and love and hope. Just the gospel. Yeah. So those two stories really impacted my life in a big way. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:04:55)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tell, talk to us a little about how stories affect survivors. Kind of maybe even before, know, while they're in the survival mode and then how that story changes when they leave the survival mode.

Allison Miller (1:05:18)
Well...

I guess it depends on what kind of story you're talking about. I will tell you that I think, you know, we seek story. I mean, everybody has stories, stories everywhere. But in terms of how it affects you when you're in survival mode, well, you may be thinking, well, I mean, if it's good outcome story, you know, well, that can never happen for me. Wow, or.

How did she do that? Or how did that work for her? Or what caused those things in her life? There are thoughts that go through your mind of, is it possible for me to be able to have that too? And I think we all have a unique purpose and a story for that purpose.

And I don't know if I'm answering your question clearly. I hope I am. I know in my own journey prior to knowing Christ, I read all kinds of books. I peace, help, it was, freedom through everything I could think of. mean horoscopes, all that kind of stuff. And what I learned is that none of that is real. That's all part of the deception.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:06:45)
but they're false hope, because they're at least something to grab onto.

Allison Miller (1:06:45)
Uh-uh.

They are false hope, but they are something to hold on to and think you're doing it. But the thing is, is I think that you're searching, you're searching, you're searching, you're searching. And if you're searching, generally you're going to come across the truth at some point. And hopefully, as long as you keep searching, right? So, you know, my search.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:06:59)
you

as long as you keep searching.

Allison Miller (1:07:16)
landed me in biblical story and the love of God and relationship with Him. mean, and even before that, the story of the dream that I had.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:07:29)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:07:30)
you know, that set me on the path to reading stories about people from books about people who were in the Bible who had been through terrible hardship and affliction. so yeah, I think. Go ahead.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:07:36)
Yeah.

Well, yeah. Yeah, well I wanna

tease that out a little more and kinda pull at it from a few different angles. So, what's the false story that people tell themselves about that survivor that's not true? That they see. They see a survivor that's in the middle of surviving and they tell themselves a story about that person. What are some of those false stories?

Allison Miller (1:08:09)
Well, I mean, pretty much, you know, she made her bed, she can lie in it. It's one false story. I think, you know, for women who are violated sexually, you hear the story of, if she didn't dress that way, that never would have happened to her. That's a lie. That has nothing to do with her.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:08:16)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Allison Miller (1:08:33)
I mean, there is some value in modest dressing, but that's not why that happened.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:08:33)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:08:41)
thinking that the people are not as good as them. People look at them and think, well, that didn't happen to me. I'm better than they are. There's an arrogance, I guess, that comes with that or a pride that comes with that. And many times there's a lack of understanding and empathy for what they've been through because they can't even begin to understand it. So there's judgment and

Jason Scott Montoya (1:08:48)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:09:07)
And it leaves people feeling more destitute and leaves people feeling less important, I guess, or valued. I mean, it's not that we all have to be important, but we need to know we're valued and we need to know that our life has significance to it. And I just believe that every woman and man walking on this earth deserves respect and dignity.

And every person that you see walking around, I know there's evil, but every single person you see, they have a story. So on the survivor side of that, would say that's kind of the perspective that people, the stories that people will tell. And then as a survivor in that mode, think it's

Jason Scott Montoya (1:10:00)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:10:07)
you you believe that and which is more detrimental to you because you take on a deeper emotional wound and mental wound of

I'm not, you know, I'm the black sheep or I'm just, you know, I'm not accepted or I'm different. So that's not good, but honestly different is good, you know? Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:10:28)
Yeah, well goes back to that bully you mentioned, right? Is there, they're

propagating the lies on you and then you start to accept them and then those lies get reaffirmed by the next person and the next person and then essentially, I mean, I think it's, if you don't have a good truth foundation to push back against that, it's very overwhelming so I think you almost have to succumb to it if you don't have an alternative.

Allison Miller (1:10:49)
Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, that is the way it is. You just do until you know.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:10:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean I think at the end of the day we all also come we would all succumb to it and maybe that's one of the things we lack is that whether it's being the victim or being the perpetrator like there probably is a set of circumstances that we would become one or both of them at some in some context and It's by God's grace that maybe we haven't been one or the other, know are both We're limited and limited and whatever because we've been both in some degree, but limited perhaps would be a better word Yeah

Allison Miller (1:11:21)
Yeah.

Correct. Yeah.

Good work.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:11:30)
So what are some systems, like when you think about systems, what are some good systems to help us to operate in a wise way?

Allison Miller (1:11:40)
Well, I would say, I mean, when we use systems, we've already talked about how they make the most of what we have. They make things more efficient and they help us steward things in a better way.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:11:47)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:11:57)
know you're gonna you know just a system per se would be just our looking at what we how we use our money we have systems for how we use our money there's a world system and there's a kingdom system and the kingdom system is the better way but we don't always know about that so

Jason Scott Montoya (1:12:16)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:12:25)
I would say through financial resources, using systems for that, whether it's savings, whether it's investing, whether, you know, if you have a system for teaching, like we do, we have a system that we use for that. And it allows us to be able to say if one person steps out, another person can step in and pick it up right away.

So it helps us maximize resources.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:13:02)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:13:02)
But in terms of a specific system, is that what you're asking me?

Jason Scott Montoya (1:13:08)
Well, I just generally like to start, know, how are you thinking about systems? Like, I kind of almost wonder, if you're mentoring a survivor, maybe as one example, what are the tools, systems, mental resources, you know, that they can tap into to help them become who they're meant to be? You know, if there's anything that comes to mind when you hear me say that.

Allison Miller (1:13:36)
Well, mean, the tools and the resource we use, we use the Bible as a tool and the Bible. There are scholars that have already done a lot of the work and so we can tap into their knowledge and their wisdom to be able to help.

These are biblical scholars. not like theologians or anything like that. They're people that really study the Bible and go back. So using that system in itself has helped us to be able to bring forth the resources that we bring forth. Specifically, working with people, sharing our podcast, sharing our blog resources.

connecting them with.

people that we know that can help them. And I don't know why I don't feel like I'm answering your question correctly, but.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:14:33)
Yeah.

Well, no,

no, I think we're just kinda zooming in, so now we can go a little bit even more specific. The thing comes to mind is, in the scriptures it says, take your thoughts captive. Which I think is a directive, but it's like, what would you say is a system on how to actually do that? What would be a way to do that? So that would maybe be one example, narrowing down on one specific thing.

Allison Miller (1:14:52)
Yes.

Yeah,

well taking your thought captive or every thought captive is a part of the renewal of the mind and and yielding to God. so you can't if you

Jason Scott Montoya (1:15:17)
Mm-hmm.

Allison Miller (1:15:21)
know, in Philippians 4-8, it talks about us thinking on things that are pure and lovely and praiseworthy and trustworthy and all of those things. So how do you get from thinking like, they hate me, I don't feel, you know, all of the things that we feel. How do you go there? Well,

Jason Scott Montoya (1:15:37)
Yeah

Allison Miller (1:15:43)
you have to really see who you are through Christ first of all and I think that comes through the Word and I think it comes through His people and you know His people helping you see yourself better through Him. There is nothing more ultimate and better than Him but I think inviting the Holy Spirit into your life if you don't have the Holy Spirit and that is it. I mean that's the greatest system I know you know because

Jason Scott Montoya (1:15:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:16:12)
That's overall everything.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:16:15)
Yeah. Well, I think

of it like our lights here. If I turn the lights off, the power's keeping the light on. And that's kind of how I think about the Holy Spirit. like, can tap into that power, or we can try and operate without it. But when we're operating without it, it's going to be a lot darker. Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:16:34)
Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah. But I mean, I remember the process of taking my thoughts captive. I mean, really, because it is a complete, you know, wow, filtering everything through his word. So go and look and see if what you're thinking or what is being

Jason Scott Montoya (1:16:57)
So you would take

like a thought you have and then find a verse that talks about that and then kind of correct, almost like a chiropractor like correcting it, you know? Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:17:02)
Yes.

Reframe it. Reframe

it in God's Word. Mm-hmm. Totally. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:17:10)
Yeah, yeah. So

someone doesn't know how to do that, is that kind what your course is designed to do, is to help them walk through that? Yeah, yeah.

Allison Miller (1:17:17)
I think it will. Yes, it definitely will. It'll help

them, you know, first of all, see why God created, even why He created us as human beings. Why are we here? You know? And yeah, it starts with a foundational and then it helps us understand really how He created us to be in relationship, communication style. I mean,

Jason Scott Montoya (1:17:27)
Hmm.

Yeah, start with the foundations. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Allison Miller (1:17:44)
Communication is so important in any kind of relationship that you're in. And if you're always on the defensive or you're an aggressive person in it or an aggressor, you know, your communication style is not going to be one that's going to be well received. so, you know, there is there is a large portion of that on communication and and how to do that. And then

Jason Scott Montoya (1:17:49)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:18:14)
coming through to the other side. Yeah.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:18:15)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting. What, I guess what, how would you wrap all of this up and what parting words of wisdom would you give us as we close out here?

Allison Miller (1:18:26)
I don't care who you are.

Life is hard. We were never, ever promised that it was gonna be easy here. So everybody is faced with challenges. Everybody's faced with hardship and struggles. And so I would just want you to know that's part of our life here. And I believe with every part of my being, because I am a

living testimony to it. That the answer to that is from the one who truly loves us, which is our great God, our King, our Lord. And through that, I think his greatest desire is to have a relationship with us and a very intimate relationship. And when I use the word intimate, I mean,

I can be sitting here talking to him right now while you and I are talking. mean, there's communication going on all the time and it's out of a loving kind and...

futuristic plan for us. But I think also to let him hold your hand and walk with you through your life and through your hard struggles and challenges because you just really won't. I mean, you can fix things. You can fix the symptoms. You can fix all of that. But if you don't go with him and get to the root or help.

you know, let people come along with I do and help you understand what the root is. you know, it's like, makes me think about when I was young.

My part of our work as we were growing up, I two sisters and I mean on Saturday mornings, we had this huge pine bed in our yard and part of our job was to pull the weeds. Well, I mean, as young teenagers, the thing you're thinking about getting out of there as fast as you can so you can go do what you want to do. And so we're just jerking those things up as fast as we can and then, you know.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:20:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:20:36)
Our parents come behind us and like, no, you have to get it from the root. If you don't get it from the root, it's going to come back. And so I would, I would say that, it, and application to our lives and the challenges and struggles we have. And, and even when we get things from the root, there will still be things that we're faced with. It seems like we, we go deeper. get more and more. We have to learn more and more and more as we go.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:20:45)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:21:06)
But it does

Jason Scott Montoya (1:21:06)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:21:07)
get easier, I think, to rely on the Lord more in it than ourselves. And so that makes it an easier journey.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:21:16)
Yeah.

Yeah, I mean we are dependent creatures. We're dependent on each other and on God. if we try and operate as independent, then we're going to have all kinds of trouble. But the more dependent we are on God, the more I think just the more free we are. Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:21:24)
Yeah.

Yeah,

and I think the more we lean into his love for us, that that's where we find our strength and our peace and our purpose. And it's beyond anything that we would ever imagine. Yeah,

Jason Scott Montoya (1:21:48)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

So tell us what you're working on, how people can connect with you.

Allison Miller (1:21:59)
Well, I think we already mentioned that I have the book, A Resilient Faith, coming out and I'm working on a 10 years later chapter. In our ministry, we're trying to bring awareness of our course so that people can go through that. Christ-centered wholeness, the pathway to becoming free.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:22:21)
and it's called the Christ-Holness, Christ-Centered.

Allison Miller (1:22:29)
and living wholeheartedly, yeah. And again, it's digital, but we are there with you. And we're also working on developing Glory Ranch. And this is gonna be a place for women to come and live with their children who are in situations that are very unhealthy. It'll be a place for them to come and live.

and a place for them to come and heal and a place for them to learn that, you know, where their value, their worth, their significance comes from. And we're totally excited about that. It's all in the baby stages. But that is one of the things that's always been from the time that I actually had the privilege and the honor to be able to live with.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:23:15)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:23:27)
A woman I always said, I hope I get to do this one day for someone. And so to be able to bring that forth, Glory Ranch and.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:23:30)
Yeah

And we'll put links to these ideas. This specifically is on Destined For Glory, min.org. So that's the Destined For Glory website. And then do you have a website for yourself that you want to put out there?

Allison Miller (1:23:56)
I do have a website. It's Allison Miller.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:24:10)
And that's for those that are interested in your books as they are released and re-released. You can check that out. then Destinforglory.org. And you're also on YouTube and Instagram and Facebook.

Allison Miller (1:24:19)
Destin for Glory, Min, M-I-N

yeah.

Right. We're looking for someone who wants to volunteer and do social media for us. So if anybody's out there that would like to participate in that, we would love to talk to you.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:24:36)
Okay, yeah.

Yeah, cool.

And anything else you want to share or anything else that's coming or is that it?

Allison Miller (1:24:49)
I would say that's it, other than I would just say remember that we're all precious to God.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:24:57)
Yeah.

Allison Miller (1:24:58)
He protects and defends us and he fights for us.

Jason Scott Montoya (1:25:01)
Yeah. Well, Allison, thank you so much for sharing your life with us today.

Allison Miller (1:25:06)
Yeah, thank you, Jason. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.