Written by Jason Montoya. Posted in Society.

Interview: Changing Hearts — Loving Those Who Hate You — With Daryl Davis

klan-destine relationships book cover In my guest appearance on Ivan Alfaro's YouTube channel (From Pain to Gain), we're interviewing musician, activist, and author, Daryl Davis. Daryl is the author of Klan-destine Relationships: A Black Man's Odyssey in the Ku Klux Klan.

In this conversation, we discuss racism from the perspective of both Daryl and the members and leaders of the KKK. We walk through this topic using Ivan's C.A.G.E. framework which stands for Complacency, Atrophy, Guilt, and Escape. Daryl emphasizes the importance of courageous conversations to combat extremist ideologies like the KKK. He advocates for genuine dialogue, emotional persuasion, and proactive efforts in education to counter radical beliefs. Davis underscores the urgency of breaking down barriers for effective communication, urging listeners to engage actively in dismantling divisive ideologies for a fully participatory society.

Conversation Highlights

Having the courage to have tough conversations
The origins and growth of the KKK (Ku Klux Klan) and how society allowed it to grow
Framing of the Civil War conflict in the North or South
Ownership transitioning to control
How white supremacy unified the South
"In order to be on top, you have to push somebody down." - Daryl Davis
Why people joined the KKK (inherited membership, community integration, & economics)
Perceptions of reality and the threat of changing it. Don't attack their reality. Instead, offer them resonating perceptions instead, for them to change their own perceptions.
"You're frustrated because they do not see what you see... understand their vision has been more limited than yours. You have seen things they have not seen. It may not be their fault that they have not seen those things." - Daryl Davis
The power of exposure to other people and worlds
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” ― Mark Twain, The Innocents Abroad / Roughing It
The story of Daryl intervening with someone who was planning to murder his son's murderer - emotional versus intellectual persuasion
"If [I, Daryl Davis] can go to a KKK rally, and talk to these people, and come out, can't you sit down your brother or sister [who differ with you]?"
Why the KKK burns the cross and the different perceptions of Christianity by the KKK
"You have to light the way for [the KKK] Jesus Christ, my Jesus Christ lights the way for me. Who are you to light the way for Jesus Christ?" - Daryl Davis
Discussing a story from Daryl''s book about his teacher allowing a Nazi leader to speak to the class
History missing from our schools, like the Tulsa Race Massacre
Being taught how to live in the real world and facing the hard things we don't want to see
The turning point when KKK members become disillusioned - follow the truth or leave their community
"When you've sat on the throne of power for 400 years, you don't want to get off." - Daryl Davis
RAHOWA (Racial Holy War) / The Bugaloo: The racial makeup of America is going to flip in a few decades.
The Racial Holy war connections to the Jan 6 capital insurrection - "The insurrectionist felt like Trump had given them license and they were emboldened. They felt that all that they had gained in the four years Trump was president; they were going to lose it all unless they reinstalled him as president. They had to put him back in office by hook or by crook even if they had to hang the vice president."
The rise of racial extremist groups and people, out of fear are joining. "When these groups fail to take the country back, some of these people, they get frustrated and anxious. They say, if the Klan or the alt-right can't do this, I'll do it myself. And they walk into a black church, synagogue, buffalo grocery store, Walmart in El Paso, Indian temple Oak Creek Wisconsin, the dollar store in Jacksonville, Florida and boom, boom [shoot them]. The people doing this are seeking a Racial Holy War. They are called lone wolves." - Daryl Davis.
"As we get closer to 2042, we're going to see more of these lone wolves which is why we have to be more proactive than reactive. These people are becoming unhinged and they believe they are doing their patriotic duty to save their country." - Daryl Davis.
Exposure and education to the radicals allow us to prepare for them
Crime of opportunity: Black on black and white on white crime
How to interact with those who hate you and offend us - taking ownership of how we respond
For people to hear us, their wall has to come down. Go on the defense instead of the offense.
The power of cognitive dissonance and how the tension can drive change. "Most people will follow the truth because the truth is the path of least resistance." - Daryl Davis.
Our most important asset is credibility